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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1159	Posted - 2014.03.20 22:44:00 - [1] - Quote Not convinced by the inability to reach perfect refine for high/low sec. Once Null Sec adjusts and other balance points are also implemented this may actually end up tipping the scales too far in Null Industries favour long term. It's a very dangerous precedent to set as it says Null must be best at everything, rather than each section of space having a true identity for what it's used for. That said, the change to favour players who have trained the skills properly rather than the current 'slap a few levels on and be at 100%' is a good change, as it makes mining & industry a more serious profession skill wise than it used to be. Just concerns it's going too far in nerfing high sec. P.S. Yes! 50% base on all Null Outposts. Something I have been in favour of for a long time.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1161	Posted - 2014.03.22 06:48:00 - [2] - Quote baltec1 wrote: miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs. Nice Nullsec lies. Miners already got far higher profits in Null Sec after the last round of mineral changes. Which made sure no matter what ore prices did that Null Sec ores would be worth more than High Sec ores. Not that this was a bad thing. But this latest change goes too far. It's good that skill now matters. It's good that POS arrays are now relevant. But it is bad that Null Sec is best at everything. That leads to a theme park where high sec is just a starting zone, and to go anywhere you have to sign onto an overlord to get allowed into Null (Because that basically is the current setup in Null) Equal refining from stations & outposts would have been fine. 20% extra is not fine. It gives too much advantage to Null.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1161	Posted - 2014.03.22 07:05:00 - [3] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Why is it bad that the most risky areas give the best reward? right now there is nothing to reward a miner. Trit in null is worth the same as high sec and you cant mine any more than in high sec. Come summer it will be worth 20% more than high sec. how is this not a good thing for miners? Because you ALREADY GET THE MOST REWARDS! You can't use that argument on every single thing in the game in isolation. Null gets better PI. Null gets better Ore. Null gets faster manufacturing lines. (Last I looked post outpost buff) Null gets faster research lines. (Last I looked post outpost buff) Null gets better Gas. Null has infinite ore in a single system thanks to industrial anomalies. Null does have higher yield thanks to Rorq boosts being better. All of this is directly industry related. You don't need better refine rates as well. If you need a boost to Null ore at all, which I'm not convinced, then it should be in the 5% & 10% varieties being more common, not in all ore giving 20% better yield when refined. Note, I'm not against the changing of outposts base to 50%, or the change so that skills matter & that POS arrays are good for refining. I'm against the 'Null must be best at every single aspect of the game' argument which is being used to justify Null getting better refining when it gives too much advantage to Null Industrialists to be able to simply price high sec utterly out of the game.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1161	Posted - 2014.03.22 07:22:00 - [4] - Quote baltec1 wrote: yes we can use that argument on everything. Any activity should reward people who take greater risks with greater rewards. I do wonder why it is you seem to think you should get the same reward for less risk, effort and cost. Because I don't get the same reward. I don't get any of the things I listed above. So a Null player ALREADY HAS MORE REWARD! You can't look at a single facet of reward and go 'that reward aspect must be higher' when there are a number of DIFFERENT rewards that apply. Overall the reward should be higher sure, but it should be higher in ways that don't break the sandbox game, and the 20% higher refine in Null has the potential to break the sandbox and make it theme park. And it shouldn't be 20% higher in every aspect, when those aspects multiply together to create a massive cumulative reward. Some of the aspects can be the same, some can even be lower in Null. As long as the overall reward across an entire play area is higher. And Industry/Mining is already significantly better in Null. Refining was poor, but it's being over corrected now, not simply fixed to the same.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1161	Posted - 2014.03.22 07:45:00 - [5] - Quote baltec1 wrote: How exactly will it break the game and make it a theampark? Now, tell us why you deserve the same reward as someone who is taking more risks than you, has more costs than you and is putting in more effort than you? also take note, goons are backing CCP with rewarding miners who take risks and you are against it. And like normal you just trot out the same argument without actually bothering to read a thing I wrote about how you already get more rewards. Also nothing about Null says you are putting in more effort than a high sec player. Or taking more risks even though I'll give you that on average Null is riskier. Anyway, have fun being a Goon and continuing with your stated SA forum goal of breaking the game, you are well on the way. Hopefully the Devs can actually multiply and work out what their maths actually means to High Sec. Or of course, Dinsdale could actually be correct in his paranoia (If wrong in how he expresses it normally) and they really are just destroying High Sec one aspect at a time till it's just like all the other MMO's out there.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1165	Posted - 2014.03.24 10:34:00 - [6] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Ok so this works by your math.. At 50 bil a hit to upgrade stations, how many battleships do you need to build 20% cheaper to recoup the investment. Because your not getting cheaper ships until the upgrades are paid for. I know goons have too much isk and waste a lot but 50bil?? That's close to paying for the next titan. Seriously if you expect goon market wh*res to sell 20% cheaper than the next guy, I think your in for a nasty shock.. You fail to understand how the goons will profit by this. They will have the ability to manipulate the market at whim since they can buy up the ore at a higher price than any high sec player can afford to pay or just undercut any high sec player on the mineral market and still make a greater profit since they get far greater refine quantities. In the scale of the EVE economy that 50 billion to upgrade is petty cash, they can make trillions a month on manipulating the market. This is the thing they have whined about for years (Rightly so to a degree). That high sec had 'better' refine rates than Null Sec did. Yet now they have the better refine rates by a larger ratio ever than high sec had, since they 'could' actually get to perfect refine with a lot of effort, now they try to defend it as fair and even despite complaining that the tiny refine difference before crippled their ability to compete. So yea.... Really, like I've said, good game goons, you bleated loud & long enough to fool CCP. Enjoy wrecking the game one step at a time. Because that superior refine rate you just got yourself is one more nail in building EVE's coffin. The rest of the updates are good. Refine rates being sensible at a base level in Null is good. A massively superior refine rate after years on your whining over a mere couple of percent and a little extra training however is indefensible.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1165	Posted - 2014.03.24 11:21:00 - [7] - Quote Inspiration wrote: It is all fair! The problem with your argument is in scale. If I have 0 skills, POS research still sucks. I can only run one job, it takes longer, and I can't invent to save myself. Skills matter. However if I have 0 skills, I can use a POS to refine better than someone with perfect skills in an NPC station. If Skills matter but you can still get that extra 2-3% from a POS at perfect skills, that's good. The problem is the guy with 0% skills is getting over 50% extra material from using a POS vs using a station. That's not good. Though I can accept it as a simple coding limitation if that's the truth of the matter as I'd rather POS arrays be relevant. But trying to pretend that it's in a good state is silly.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1167	Posted - 2014.03.24 23:22:00 - [8] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: CCP, are you really going to allow minerals to be created, above and beyond what is contained in ore? Your formulas show rates of above 100%. Is 100% the hard limit, or are you just going to be silly and poof minerals out of thin air and harm the economy? Yes, they are currently allowing minerals to poof out of thin air with their proposed change. In order to actually do this change without doing that, they would have to run a script to auto convert all ore reserves into minerals at some predefined (probably 100% refining) rate when they take the server down for the update. So everyone starts from 0 on the ore and has to mine it. Otherwise they give free minerals to Null Sec. & pretty much only null sec, the high sec margins aren't overall significant.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1219	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:33:00 - [9] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: warms up bullshit engines the capsuleers discovered a new way to increase ore yield but it uses caustic chemicals and/or dangerous, fatal techniques fortunately capsuleers are immortal so they don't give a crap but the empires are like "naw dude naw" So a 1% chance every ten thousand ore you refine that your clone dies, you loose your implants and you have to upgrade a new clone? Sounds fair on that front. Also known as BS failed. The stations aren't run by Capsuleers, they are owned by Capsuleers, they are run by normal people. The simple fact is that after the years & years of Null screaming how they couldn't compete because they had a disadvantage, which most sensible high sec players agreed with them on, now that they have the advantage they are trying to put the boot down on high sec, rather than acknowledging that it is unfair for any space to have such an advantage in basic refining.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1270	Posted - 2014.04.24 23:32:00 - [10] - Quote Querns wrote: Regarding unification of compressed ore types, you could also do it in the opposite direction. E.g.: (numbers are not based on reality since I can't remember the actual numbers and am too lazy to look it up) 100 veldspar = 1 compressed veldspar 95 concentrated veldspar = 1 compressed veldspar 90 dense veldspar = 1 compressed veldspar This is a good idea, and if the math makes it feasible, I'd like to see it happen. Or you could do it even simpler. Mining an asteroid of Dense Veld just gives you 10% more yield for the same time. But you get Veld out of the rock. That way there is no such object as Dense Veld to begin with. Only Veld. The tag just reflects a bonus to yield that you get.

Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1270	Posted - 2014.04.25 02:54:00 - [11] - Quote Yea well, I don't think many people try to argue that the hulk ore bay is a good state right now. It should equal the Skiff ore bay. And always should have been made equal to create a better spread. CCP just don't want to adjust it to match because it will look like caving into pressure. But the Metrics are very clear on it's use.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1280	Posted - 2014.04.27 19:20:00 - [12] - Quote Maldiro Selkurk wrote: I restate that the only real solution is to grandfather in all existing players with a RE-90 refining plug that functions like the plug that makes your pod golden. Grandfathering that would give old pilots an advantage a new player could never match. That's a terrible plan. Just accept your skills are different.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1288	Posted - 2014.04.28 10:23:00 - [13] - Quote Jethrow Toralen wrote: With one of the benefits of the new 55% reproc max being that Extra Materials will be unnecessary in Bills of Materials, does this mean that all materials will be treated equally for skills that reduce wastage and for the effect of ME? Short answer yes. Long answer wait for the blog on ME levels since they are doing some changes there also.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1288	Posted - 2014.04.28 10:29:00 - [14] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: So let me get this straight: you believe that highsec has the greater risk already, so it should therefore have the greater reward? Or perhaps you at least believe that the risk between them is equal? If we assume equal refining between the areas. Nullsec still has greater reward because it has better ore, high end ore, moon goo, better PI production by huge orders and infinite ore in a single system. However what Equal refining means is that 1 unit of an identical ore has the same production value for null & high. While Null having better refining gives it yet another advantage on top of all the others it has to start with. And one that makes it able to produce ships significantly 'cheaper' than Highsec possibly can. It's not about the 'one' advantage. It's about all the advantages accumulating into a massive tower. Because it's a cumulative effect it also won't show immediately and by the time it does show if Null has too much advantage it will have been running for a long time and be too late to fix easily. If Null need more low end minerals and importing compressed ore is too hard, then the correct fix is to increase low ends availability in Null by mixing in things like more dense Veld asteroids into the Industrial Anoms. (Or just mining the Veld in the belts) In short, the refining difference is the wrong approach to rewards.

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